Benutzer Diskussion:Yellowcard/Mentees/Fgrammen

Diskussionsseite für meinen Mentee Fgrammen.

Hallo Fgrammen!

Hallo Fgrammen, willkommen im Mentorenprogramm. Ich bin Yellowcard, Dein neuer Mentor. Ich hoffe, ich kann Dich in den kommenden Wochen ein wenig beim Einstirg in die Welt der Wikipedia unterstützen, denn dieser Einstieg ist oftmals kein leichter. Es gibt hier viele Strukturen, die man beachten sollte, wenn man mit gewissen Benutzern nicht anecken möchte. Im Laufe der Zeit wird das allerdings zur Selbstverständlichkeit, sodass Du Dich nicht abschrecken lassen solltest. Ich habe gesehen, dass Du bereits den Artikel Rasterverschmelzung erstellt hast – und prompt hat er einen Löschantrag. Dies sollten wir uns als erstes Mal näher ansehen.

Zunächst aber würde ich Dich bitten, dass Du Dich hier auf dieser Seite mal kurz meldest und vielleicht ein paar Sätze über Dich schreibst: Was hat Dich hier in die Wikipedia bewegt, was möchtest Du hier so tun etc. – eben so, dass ich einen kurzen Überblick erhalte.

Gut wäre es übrigens, wenn Du diese Seite auf Deine "Beobachtungsliste" aufnimmst. Dazu klickst Du oberhalb dieser Seite auf den Reiter "Beobachten". Wenn Du nun regelmäßig, wenn Du auf die Seiten der Wikipedia gehst, auf Deine Beobachtungsliste guckst (findest Du ganz oben in der allerersten Zeile: "Beobachtungsliste"), siehst Du, an welchen Seiten zuletzt Änderungen vorgenommen wurden, also zum Beispiel, wenn ich Dir hier eine neue Nachricht hinterlassen habe. Du kannst übrigens jede Seite im ganzen Projekt auf Deine Beobachtungsliste setzen. Liebe Grüße, -- Yellowcard 13:29, 23. Feb. 2010 (CET)

Hello Mentor Yellowcard;

First, let me apologize for not writing in German. We recently uploaded a Wiki article in German. That article was a direct translation form the English Wiki which has been there for more than two years. The same article has now appeared in Polish, Greek, Spanish and Chinese. The German version was deleted and held until corrections to it make it meet the quality standards. Because the instructions were in German, I could not understand what they meant and, therefore, could not improve the article.

A first difficulty is usually the title of the article. The term we have used in English, the "Fused Grid", is entirely new in the city planning domain.We created it. Translating a new term into another language is always difficult and requires good knowledge of the language and the area in which the topic fits (ie City Planning). The second difficulty is with the ability to serach for it. If it entirely new, few will know what to type in the search box.

In the English version both of these difficulties have been overcome as the term "Fused Grid" has now gained currency and is widely used in the English-speaking world among planners. The problem I face is how to present the concept in other languages so that the term conveys the right meaning and can be found easily.

I am an Architect and have been a senior researcher at Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC)for 25 years. The topics of my research included all aspects of housing and neighbourhood planning. The CMHC site has had a section on the Fused Grid for 3 years now.(www.cmhc.ca). I have my own web site on the topic: www.fusedgrid.ca

I hope I gave you enough information to understand who I am and what the current problem is.

Best Regards

Fanis Grammenos

-- fgrammen 14:00, 23. Feb. 2010 (EST)

Hey Fanis, thanks for your explanation. However, in the first sight I want you to understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which represents gerneral knowledge. This is nothing new for you, I am sure - but it seems to me as if you wanted to create knowledge instead of representing such. I don't know the proceedings in the other Wikipedia language versions, but here we clearly refuse this Original Research. That's why your article is being considered for deletion.

For representing knowledge it is always necessary that one can find sources which can back up the Wikipedia article. In this case, your new term Rasterverschmelzung is not used at all (see Google search). Therefore it will be difficult to keep this article here.

I see only one possibility we can do right now: We could use your original term Fused Grid if you can proove that this term has been accepted and become common within the English-speaking architects (or even others than the English-speaking architects). If you can find sources and so proove that Fused Grid is a common technical term, it should be not problem to keep this article here. If there are not such sources, though, the Fused Grid is simply not relevant for the German Wikipedia and is considered advertising. In this case, this article will be deleted and we cannot do anything.

So what do you think? Can you find independent sources which show that this technique and this technical term are in common use in architecture? Or are the sources you can bring forward only sources based on your website / your research?

Cheers, -- Yellowcard 00:15, 24. Feb. 2010 (CET)

Dear Mentor Yellowcard;

Thank you for your prompt reply and the very helpfull suggestions. The term has in fact gained currency in the English speaking world of planning. I will list below examples of such currency: 1. The fused grid model has been applied in Canada by three municipalities :Stratford, ON, Calgary, Alberta and Fort McMurray, Alberta. A few other municipalities have included it in their planning reports. 2. There have been three independent Masters Theses at the Universities of British Columbia (2), and University of Guelph(1). 3. Recently, A German publishing house issued a book which is a collection of articles and on its cover the term Fused Grid is used to refer to one of the chapters in the book of which iI was not the author 3.An web based encyclopedia on transportation has included a section on the model using the term Fused Grid.

Fused Grid Links 1. My former employer A government housing organization uses the term on their web site: [1] 2. A project team at Ryerson University used the model as a study exercise: [2] 3. On line TDM encyclopaedia has a section on the model: [3] 4. A summary of a Master’s Thesis in Planning at the University of British Columbia. The original resides in the University archives: [4] and the actual Thesis: [5] 5. Independent commentary on the model by an author in a reputable American planners web site: h[6]

6. Entirely independent reporting referring to the model : [7] 7. Dr. Lawrence Frank presents.” Climate Change and Health Impacts of Transportation Network Design” at the Congress of New Urbanism Conference: [8] 8. Recommendations to a Canadian City Council without my knowledge or involvement: [9] 9. Presentation to a conference by an entirely independent consultant entirely unrelated to me: [10] 10. The Canadian City of Whitehorse using the Fused Grid model without my knowledge or intervention. [11] 11. The City of Collingwood ON includes it in their design standards: [12] 12. Consulting firms using the term in their reports: [13] 13. On the City of Kingston, ON planning committee Agenda: [14] 14. Reporting on the Fused Grid in Australia: [15] 15. A university of California Professor mentions it at a presentation to a US audience: [16] 16. Independent reporting and rediscovering by others: [17] 17. A German publishing house issues a book with the Fused Grid term on the cover subtitle: [18]

thank you -- fgrammen 17:00, 25. Feb. 2010 (EST)

Hello Fgrammen, thanks a lot for those many references. I will look them through within the next days and add them to the article. In the meantime, the deletion request was closed and the article was moved to Fused Grid. However, it might be better to use Fused-Grid-Modell as the German lemma, but I can tell you later when I've read your many internet links. In a nutshell, I assume it looks quite good for your article. :-) -- Yellowcard 23:16, 25. Feb. 2010 (CET)

Thank you so much for your help, Yellowcard. Your suggestion for adding Fused-Grid-Model is excellent. I will wait for your next message.

-- fgrammen 17:50, 26. Feb. 2010 (EST)

Hello Mentor Yellowcard;

I checked the article sporadically in the last couple of weeks and no change is apparent. I also cannot tell if it is now searchable by the German speaking audience, as the statistics tab does not show any visits(it could be simply its newness or the fact that it has an English title.) Please let me know what the next normal steps are for its full integration in the German Wiki body.

best regards Fanis -- fgrammen 19:30, 18. March. 2010 (EST)

Hello Fanis, I just edited the article a bit more and made some changes. I find the article very comprehensive and understandable. However, you're right that the artcile hasn't too many visits. This is probably because it is orphaned which means no other articles link to Fused Grid. I have a hard time finding good places to link Fused Grid but I am sure you can help me: Where, do you think, can we link to the article? Then you'll get some more visitors for the artcile. Anyways, Fanis, always stay aware of the fact that Wikipedia is not a basis for advertising but an encyclopedia. ;-) Cheers, Yellowcard 23:30, 21. Mär. 2010 (CET) (PS: Who has written the article or translated it into German, respectively? Do you speak German?)

Hello Yellowcard Mentor; Thank you so much for your good work and your very kind words. Potential places for links are: a) where the Grid is mentioned b)where cul-de-sacs are mentioned c) where Christopher Alexander's patterns are listed and d)where transportation networks are discussed. Please do not cosider this as a request,you have already been very helpful; the wiki article link will eventually find its way to various German planning magazines and websites. I wrote the article and a german-speaking colleague translated it.( I learned a bit of German 20 years ago in München but have not practiced it since; too little for writing anyway).Is it possible to acknowledge his work somewhere in the article or oher pages? His name is Michael Afar. I do remember some words: Auf wiederseen, Gemütlich, Tanke, Bitte and Weltanschaoung among few.

Cheers Fanis

-- fgrammen 19:30, 30. March. 2010 (EST)

Hey Fanis, it's too funny that you remember Weltanschauung between those other common words :D To you question: Yes, you even should acknowledge his work for licensing reasons. I recommend to just put his name and some further words on the article's talk page. Yellowcard 10:55, 31. Mär. 2010 (CEST)