Wikipedia:Weblinks/Block/france-voyage.com

Auf dieser Seite werden Anfragen zu Sperrungen und Entsperrungen der im Titel oder der Überschrift genannten Website, Domain oder Sub-Domain besprochen.

france-voyage.com

www.france-voyage.com/de/

Vielfach verlinktes Werbe-Portal, das keinerlei enzyklopädischen Mehrwehrt bietet, sondern dazu dient, Kunden auf *ausgewählte* Restaurants, Campingplätze, Hotels etc. zu führen. Ich wäre für Black-List. --Drahreg·01^RM 17:34, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

gudn tach!

frag am besten sicherheitshalber noch mal zusaetzlich auf WP:WEB/O nach.

so wie mir das aussieht, sind da deep-links irgendwie nicht (immer) moeglich, weil man automatisch auf die main page weitergeleiten wird. (imho ist das grund genug, sowas als nicht mehr "vom feinsten" zu bezeichnen.) -- seth 18:10, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

nachtrag: habe jetzt noch mal etwas genauer geschaut. die seite wurde wohl nicht von den (haupt)autoren, sondern vor allem von ip-adressen a la Spezial:Beiträge/88.169.172.60 und Spezial:Beiträge/88.161.212.165 verlinkt. ich nehm die seite in die blacklist auf. das loeschen von den seiten uebernimmst du, ok? -- seth 20:21, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

Mach ich. Vielen Dank! --Drahreg·01^RM 20:33, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

Done! habe auch gleich viele Artikel davon gesichtet und in der Versionsgeschichte fiel auf, dass diese links oft schon mehrfach aus den Artikeln geflogen sind. Waren also auch schon andere der Meinung, dass die nix taugen. Viele Grüße, --Drahreg·01^RM 22:50, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

ok, dann entschaerfe ich auch gerade mal obigen link, nicht dass es stress beim archivieren gibt. ;-) -- seth 23:17, 30. Jun. 2008 (CEST)

france-voyage.com II

weil eine anfrage auf englisch per e-mail zu mir eingetrudelt ist, gebe ich kurz die gruende einer alten diskussion auf englisch wieder. -- seth 01:31, 24. Sep. 2008 (CEST)
summary of related discussion MediaWiki_Diskussion:Spam-blacklist/Archiv/2008#www.france-voyage.com_.28erl..29: 1. deep links often are not possible, because they lead to main page; 2. not the main authors added the links to articles, but primarily Special:contributions/88.169.172.60 and Special:contributions/88.161.212.165. 3. the links were deleted many times, but were repeatedly added by those ip addresses without using the talk pages. -- seth 01:31, 24. Sep. 2008 (CEST)

Thank you for the explanation.

Point 1) is not accurate since deep linking is possible on this website. Most of the pages even give the code to create a deep link when you click on "Einem Link zu dieser Seite erstellen". I tried to give an example here but it does not work because the website is blacklisted.

For point 2), it seems some people like this France guide so much they create many links to it. I agree this should be kept moderated to some degree. However, it is true that this website contains a great deal of tourist information about France in the German language (sites to visit, museums, heritage, gastronomy, etc.) It also contains 20000+ photos described in German. I believe this website can be useful to reference in a number of articles about France.

Sabine (nicht signierter Beitrag von 170.252.11.11 (Diskussion) 8:56, 24. Sep. 2008 (CEST))

Hi!

I guess, you see the problem of too much linking. So we can't remove the entry from the sbl (spam-blacklist) for the danger of spamming is too high. But there is still an opportunity to place blacklisted links in articles:

At First one has to be sure, that a link would be a great addendum to an article. The rules for external links are given on WP:WEB (german). Similar (but not identical!) rules can be read in enwiki: en:Wikipedia:External_links.

After that one can ask on the appropriate talk page ("Diskussionseite"), whether the (main) authors would appreciate the link. If the link is not declined within a few days, one can ask here to de-blacklist the link temporarily.

If we are talking about more than 4 articles, then it would be better to use a talk page of the appropriate portal (in this case: Portal_Diskussion:Tourismus_und_Sehenswürdigkeiten) instead of many single talk pages. -- seth 14:55, 24. Sep. 2008 (CEST)

Thank you for the clarification, but I must have missed something: Why are legitimate websites blacklisted when links are created by spammers? Would it not make more sense to blacklist the spamming IPs? Although it is technically still possible to create links to a blacklisted website, most Wikipedia contributors will not bother and some of them will not understand how to do it. My main problem is that france-voyage.com is presented as a spamming website to contributors while it is definitely not the case. It is a serious registered company that works with official tourism parties in France (tourism minister, tourism bureaus, town halls, etc.) In the problem that occurred a few months ago, it is clear that the spammers originated from 2 specific IPs. Is this a sufficient reason to blacklist this website forever? There is no way back? I cannot believe Wikipedia encourages the permanent blacklisting of any legitimate website because one spammer has created x links. Please clarify this situation. Sabine (nicht signierter Beitrag von 170.252.11.11 (Diskussion) 8:40, 29. Sep. 2008 (CEST))

The spamlist does not say "all domains matched by these entries are evil!", the blacklist is just a technical possibility to avoid link-spamming. If spamming is done not by just one user, but by different (and dynamic) ip addresses, it is less desruptive to block the link than to block articles or ip-ranges. iow: links are not as important as content is.

Entries of the sbl will be deleted, if regular wikipedia editors requests it (for using it in an article). The removal can be temporarily or permanently.

Removal requests of domain holders are usually declined for they have a conflict of interest.

If a wikipedia editor tries to use france-voyage.com as a link, he'll get a warning message, which describes how to request a sbl removal or whitelisting. As you are the first one, who requests a removal, I don't see a need to de-blacklist that link at present.

However, I'll ask on Portal_Diskussion:Tourismus_und_Sehenswürdigkeiten for opinions of editors which are more adepted in tourism. -- seth 16:23, 29. Sep. 2008 (CEST)

Unfortunately that portal seems to be somehow dead, so I asked on the talkpage of WP:WEB (the rules for external links). Until now there was one answer which declines linking of your domain, because it seems to be a tourist guide and doesn't contain further encyclopaedical information. -- seth 23:19, 1. Okt. 2008 (CEST)

It seems you did not take the time to look at this guide properly: It contains over 4000 encyclopaedical articles about France illustrated by 20000+ photos. It is one of the most recognized online guides in German for France. Just search for a tourism term in the "Suchen" section of the guide or look for photos. I still cannot believe we need to go through all this because 2 IPs (maybe the same person by the way) has created a few links. Sabine

I have requested m:User:COIBot/XWiki/france-voyage.com. In the top 10 of editors adding this link only IP editors are adding it (Top 10 users of france-voyage.com (UL, ULW, TL): user:170.252.122.1 (22, 5, 23), user:170.252.244.1 (19, 5, 21), user:88.169.172.60 (14, 5, 14), user:88.161.212.165 (11, 5, 11), user:170.252.72.61 (9, 5, 38), user:82.234.108.163 (9, 3, 9), user:170.252.248.206 (8, 5, 10), user:212.180.72.50 (8, 3, 9), user:196.200.87.20 (8, 3, 8), user:170.252.248.203 (5, 5, 16); UL is how often did this user add the link; ULW is to how many wikis did this user add this link, and TL is how many links did this user add). For a total, for as far as I can see the link is added 155 times by 74 editors (31 unique editors). Lets wait for the report to see who the other editors are, but if the top 10 is only IPs and no established editors ... --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} (meta: U, T) 14:23, 3. Okt. 2008 (CEST)

17 out of 155 additions are by named accounts, and of the edits by the named accounts a couple are vandalism reverts. However, it has also been used as a reference by at least 2 of them. Hope this helps. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} (meta: U, T) 14:28, 3. Okt. 2008 (CEST)

On the one hand it does. On the other hand I'm still not sure about whitelisting. The best thing imho is to wait until somebody makes a request for linking for a specific article. -- seth 16:09, 18. Nov. 2008 (CET)

france-voyage.com 2023

Aus welchem Grund ist die Website auf der Spam-Blacklist? Zu kommerziell? --Giovanni-PSV (Diskussion) 12:11, 22. Jul. 2023 (CEST)

Die Seite wurde 2008 nach dieser Diskussion aufgenommen. Abgesehen von damals beinahe spamartigen Einfügen, waren weitere Gründe, dass keine Deeplinks möglich und es vor allem Werbebeiträge für Restaurants und co. waren. Letzteres scheint nach wie vor der Fall zu sein. --Gruß, Traeumer (Diskussion) 14:43, 22. Jul. 2023 (CEST)

Die Seite ist auch auf der globalen Spam-Blacklist. --Count Count (Diskussion) 15:16, 22. Jul. 2023 (CEST)

Ich bin der gleichen Meinung wie den Diskussionsteilnehmern. Der Link hat auf Wiki-Artikeln nichts zu suchen. --Giovanni-PSV (Diskussion) 13:00, 24. Jul. 2023 (CEST)