Diskussion:Adeste fideles

Der Text ist eine gekürzte Übersetzung des Artikels in der englischsprachigen Wikipedia. Es folgt die Versionsgeschichte:

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• (cur) (last) 08:44, 23 December 2006 Hornplease (Talk | contribs) (Revert to revision 95921254 dated 2006-12-22 14:00:41 by Hornplease using popups)
• (cur) (last) 20:31, 22 December 2006 24.211.125.115 (Talk) (→External links)
• (cur) (last) 20:30, 22 December 2006 24.211.125.115 (Talk) (→External links)
• (cur) (last) 20:28, 22 December 2006 24.211.125.115 (Talk) (→External links)
• (cur) (last) 20:26, 22 December 2006 24.211.125.115 (Talk) (→External links)
• (cur) (last) 14:00, 22 December 2006 Hornplease (Talk | contribs) (It has been performed and recorded by many hundreds of artists and groups. Why are these more notable?)
• (cur) (last) 14:29, 20 December 2006 85.240.247.231 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 02:39, 20 December 2006 Dah31 (Talk | contribs) m (+ link descant)
• (cur) (last) 05:32, 19 December 2006 142.157.199.24 (Talk) (→Complete English lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 04:14, 19 December 2006 Taureth (Talk | contribs) (Added Bing Crosby's album to the end list of artist who have recorded Adeste Fideles.)
• (cur) (last) 20:06, 18 December 2006 81.129.169.93 (Talk) (→Complete English lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 20:05, 18 December 2006 81.129.169.93 (Talk) (→Complete English lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 12:57, 17 December 2006 Roger green (Talk | contribs) (→Complete English lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 06:07, 17 December 2006 STBotD (Talk | contribs) m (robot Adding: fr:Adeste Fideles)
• (cur) (last) 01:01, 17 December 2006 136.167.253.150 (Talk)
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• (cur) (last) 01:34, 16 December 2006 SigmaEpsilon (Talk | contribs) m (copyedit)
• (cur) (last) 20:27, 15 December 2006 Captain Cornflake (Talk | contribs)
• (cur) (last) 20:10, 15 December 2006 196.2.124.251 (Talk) (I have slightly changed the wording of the first sentence.)
• (cur) (last) 18:04, 14 December 2006 81.129.169.93 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 16:56, 10 December 2006 83.76.168.4 (Talk) (ovanti non ovantl piis non pils and Aeterni Parrentis splendorem aeternum (orthographic errors, scanner?))
• (cur) (last) 16:16, 10 December 2006 83.76.168.4 (Talk) (la.wiki)
• (cur) (last) 15:28, 10 December 2006 VJDocherty (Talk | contribs) (Added Enya cover)
• (cur) (last) 11:10, 9 December 2006 Dave11111 (Talk | contribs)
• (cur) (last) 19:39, 8 December 2006 81.129.169.93 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 23:47, 7 December 2006 24.174.22.108 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
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• (cur) (last) 20:07, 5 December 2006 207.59.224.2 (Talk)
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• (cur) (last) 10:19, 22 November 2006 Bota47 (Talk | contribs) m (robot Adding: es:Adeste Fideles)
• (cur) (last) 22:58, 20 November 2006 Max24 (Talk | contribs)
• (cur) (last) 00:50, 19 November 2006 65.96.10.229 (Talk) (→Complete lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 07:50, 15 November 2006 Ales Tosovsky (Talk | contribs) m (+ interwiki cs:Adeste fideles)
• (cur) (last) 00:22, 11 November 2006 Nohat (Talk | contribs)
• (cur) (last) 09:17, 3 November 2006 Lambiam (Talk | contribs) (rv to last by 209.10.171.2 but natus = newborn & cap nouns referring to the newborn)
• (cur) (last) 23:06, 2 November 2006 69.213.248.248 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
• (cur) (last) 23:04, 2 November 2006 69.213.248.248 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
• (cur) (last) 18:07, 2 November 2006 209.10.171.2 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 23:00, 29 October 2006 Thijs!bot (Talk | contribs) m (robot Removing: cs:Adeste Fideles)
• (cur) (last) 08:14, 25 October 2006 Thorsen (Talk | contribs) m
• (cur) (last) 13:02, 20 October 2006 Ales Tosovsky (Talk | contribs) m (+ interwiki cs:Adeste Fideles)
• (cur) (last) 09:53, 30 September 2006 Thijs!bot (Talk | contribs) m (robot Modifying: nl:Adeste fideles)
• (cur) (last) 13:24, 27 August 2006 Rex Germanus (Talk | contribs) m
• (cur) (last) 13:32, 24 August 2006 Dbmag9 (Talk | contribs) (→Latin lyric - corrected translation into more accurate one)
• (cur) (last) 15:55, 18 July 2006 66.11.9.125 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
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• (cur) (last) 17:38, 17 June 2006 85.250.122.87 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
• (cur) (last) 20:28, 8 May 2006 24.173.115.22 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
• (cur) (last) 09:31, 5 May 2006 Gaius Cornelius (Talk | contribs) m (Fix capitalisation using AWB)
• (cur) (last) 09:15, 2 May 2006 Charles Matthews (Talk | contribs) (make link to English College)
• (cur) (last) 00:46, 26 March 2006 87.218.137.181 (Talk) (→Latin lyric)
• (cur) (last) 20:09, 20 January 2006 Netoholic (Talk | contribs) (→Complete lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 01:47, 20 January 2006 Keolah (Talk | contribs) (removed comment)
• (cur) (last) 01:22, 8 January 2006 69.243.114.36 (Talk) (spelling correction: excepotion -> exception)
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• (cur) (last) 13:59, 30 December 2005 Waelsch (Talk | contribs) m
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• (cur) (last) 16:55, 22 December 2005 86.133.68.112 (Talk) (→External links)
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• (cur) (last) 00:45, 12 December 2005 Wahkeenah (Talk | contribs) (→Lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 13:16, 11 December 2005 84.121.13.184 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 13:15, 11 December 2005 84.121.13.184 (Talk) (→Lyrics)
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• (cur) (last) 20:04, 3 September 2005 Damast (Talk | contribs) m (interwiki sv:)
• (cur) (last) 11:38, 2 September 2005 66.57.59.59 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 17:52, 19 August 2005 Ardonik (Talk | contribs) m (fix spelling in caption)
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• (cur) (last) 15:42, 21 December 2004 SGBailey (Talk | contribs) (remove Wades birth and death - on his own page. Fix date of probably writing.)
• (cur) (last) 22:31, 8 December 2004 Radiojon (Talk | contribs) m
• (cur) (last) 14:04, 30 November 2004 Ashdurbat (Talk | contribs) (Merged O Come All Ye Faithful)
• (cur) (last) 18:01, 26 November 2004 Rdsmith4 (Talk | contribs) (move template to proper place)
• (cur) (last) 17:59, 26 November 2004 84.121.6.92 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 13:37, 26 November 2004 131.111.8.98 (Talk)
• (cur) (last) 07:58, 11 November 2004 Man vyi (Talk | contribs) m (cat:)
• (cur) (last) 05:57, 23 October 2004 RickK (Talk | contribs) (delete copyvio from http://www.cvc.org/christmas/hymns/hymn.htm)
• (cur) (last) 05:54, 23 October 2004 RickK (Talk | contribs) (delete lyrics)
• (cur) (last) 04:49, 23 October 2004 SWAdair (Talk | contribs) (add English translation at the beginning for those who don't recognize the Latin name)
• (cur) (last) 02:16, 23 October 2004 24.5.223.141 (Talk)

--Στέφανος (Stefan) ± ■  23:34, 23. Dez. 2006 (CET)

Autorenangaben

Wieso taucht in diesem Artikel John Reading (17. Jahrhundert) als Komponist nicht auf? In dem Wikipedia-Link zu den 4 verschiedenen Textfassungen steht sein Name klein gedruckt unter "Nun freut euch, ihr Christen". Ebenfalls erscheint dieser Name in diversen Liederbüchern. Ist er der eigentliche Komponist und John Francis Wade hat die Melodie dann wiederentdeckt? Und wie verhält es sich mit dem Abbé Borderies, der in diversen Liederbüchern als Autor mit der Jahresangabe 1790 erscheint? Kam er im Zuge der französischen Revolution nach England und hat dort das Lied von John Francis Wade kennengelernt? Aber ist er für die Entstehungsgeschichte des Liedes nicht relevant?-- 84.189.13.175 00:03, 15. Sep. 2010 (CEST)

John Reading und Abbé Borderies sind nun auch mit aufgenommen. Die Urheberschaft des Liedes bleibt aber noch immer verworren. Gruß --Kroppe 13:32, 23. Dez. 2011 (CET)

„Spekulationen, das Werk könne von Marcos António Portugal oder gar vom portugiesischen König Johann IV. komponiert worden sein, sind damit hinfällig.“ – doch auf en.WP wird genau das im Einleitungssatz mit gleich drei EN belegt? --87.155.72.196 23:05, 29. Nov. 2017 (CET)

Ja, der englische Artikel ist in einem schlimmen Zustand und sehr konfur, und der erste dort angegebene EN [1] widerspricht der Legende von der portugiesischen Herkunft eigentlich relativ deutlich. Ich hoffe, ich komme demnächst mal dazu, den englischen Artikel zu überarbeiten. --FordPrefect42 (Diskussion) 23:49, 29. Nov. 2017 (CET)

Lyrics

Wieso gibt es unterschiedliche Textfassung von dem Lied?--85.179.110.11 00:16, 7. Dez. 2008 (CET)

Wieso das so ist, kann ich nicht beantworten. Außer dass es vermutlich von den meisten bekannten Liedern auf der Welt verschiedene Versionen gibt. Ich denke nur, dass "Nun freut euch, ihr Christen" die sowohl ältere als auch in Deutschland bekanntere Fassung ist. Deswegen sollten wir vermutlich auch etwas zu dieser Version im Artikel erwähnen. --Robinandroid 09:16, 7. Jul. 2010 (CEST)

Es gibt ja schon unterschiedliche Textfassungen in der lateinischen Version. Dies könnte daran liegen, dass evtl. einige Strophen des Liedes später hinzugefügt wurden. Vielleicht kann das mal jemand recherchieren? Gruß --Kroppe 13:32, 23. Dez. 2011 (CET)

Text

Auf Latein klingt es am besten. Die deutsche Übersetzung, sweigen wir lieber und die englische ist auch nicht sonderlich gut.--109.91.72.35 02:10, 22. Dez. 2011 (CET)

Was noch fehlt

Es gibt einige Dinge, die sich noch verbessern lassen:

• Die Quellenlage zu einigen Aussagen im Artikel ist nicht gerade zufriedenstellend. Hier sollten Quellen eingefügt werden.
• Die Autorschaft von Nun freut euch, ihr Christen war mir leider nicht bekannt, sollte aber noch eingefügt werden, falls es jemand weiß.
• Ggf. könnten noch einige bekanntere Interpreten (z.B. Enya, Tarja Turunen oder Luciano Pavarotti) im Artikel genannt werden, die das Lied in den letzten Jahren interpretiert haben.

Gruß --Kroppe 13:32, 23. Dez. 2011 (CET)

Fehler

Der gezeigte Notensatz von J.F.Wade ist fehlerhaft (z.B. der einstimmige Teil "O lasset uns anbeten" liegt eine Terz zu hoch). Die Hördatei weicht hörbar ab vom Notensatz und enthält mehrere Fehler in den Begleitstimmen.

Freundlichen Gruß axel.goeller@web.de (nicht signierter Beitrag von 92.74.11.8 (Diskussion) 00:31, 24. Nov. 2014 (CET))

Stimmt. Die Datei hat offenbar ein Benutzer selbst fehlerhaft irgendwo abgeschrieben. Hab sie ersetzt. --Rabanus Flavus (Diskussion) 21:09, 12. Jan. 2016 (CET)

Melodie

Die Bilddatei mit dem Notensatz trägt die Komponistenangabe John Francis Wade. Im Artikel heißt es jedoch, Wades Melodiefassung sei im Dreiertakt notiert. Also wohl doch eine spätere Fassung? --Rabanus Flavus (Diskussion) 20:07, 12. Jan. 2016 (CET)

Insbesondere ist John Francis Wade als Komponist ja alles andere als gesichert. Und die rhythmische Fassung der Melodie im 2er-Takt geht wie im Artikel beschrieben auf Samuel Webbe (1782) zurück. Alles andere als Faktum hinzustellen wäre unredlich. --FordPrefect42 (Diskussion) 10:39, 13. Jan. 2016 (CET)

Cantio?

Das Lied wird seit 2016 im Einleitungsabschnitt als "Cantio" (lat. für "Lied") bezeichnet. Gibt es Belege, daß das Wort im Deutschen ein anerkannter musikwissenschaftlicher Fachbegriff ist? Wikipedia, Google - soweit Fehlanzeige. --Anfeld (Diskussion) 09:42, 10. Dez. 2019 (CET)

Hymnologische Standardterminologie: Liederkunde, Geistliches Wunderhorn, Grub: Evangelische Spuren im Gotteslob (dort Zitat aus Werkbuch zum Gotteslob), Guido Fuchs: Unsere Weihnachtslieder. Wobei mir die genaue Begriffsverwendung auch nicht ganz klar geworden ist, also ob sich das einfach auf den lateinischen Text bezieht, oder ob der Begriff in der Hymnologie besonders verwendet wird. @Rabanus Flavus: weißt du evtl. mehr zu dem Thema? --FordPrefect42 (Diskussion) 19:19, 10. Dez. 2019 (CET)

Hallo, nein, ich weiß nicht mehr dazu. Im Ausschlussverfahren würde ich sagen: Adeste ist kein Hymnus im ambrosianischen Sinn und auch kein Lied im deutschen Sinn, wegen der im Original sehr unregelmäßigen Silbenzahl und wegen der Sakralsprache, darum hier der Ausdruck Cantio... --Rabanus Flavus (Diskussion) 21:42, 10. Dez. 2019 (CET)

Danke schön! Ich habe jetzt übrigens doch noch ein paar musikwissenschaftliche Artikel dazu gefunden:

• Ewald Jammers: Cantio. In: Friedrich Blume (Hrsg.): Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart (MGG). Erste Ausgabe, Band 2 (Boccherini – Da Ponte). Bärenreiter/Metzler, Kassel u. a. 1952, DNB 550439609, Sp. 778–781
• Jaromír Černy: Cantio. In: Ludwig Finscher (Hrsg.): Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart. Zweite Ausgabe, Sachteil, Band 2 (Bolero – Encyclopedie). Bärenreiter/Metzler, Kassel u. a. 1995, ISBN 3-7618-1103-9 (Online-Ausgabe, für Vollzugriff Abonnement erforderlich)
• John Caldwell: Cantio. In: Grove Music Online (englisch; Abonnement erforderlich).

Kurz gesagt also: Cantio = mittelalterliches lateinisches Strophenlied sakralen (nicht notwendig liturgischen) Inhalts, meist mit Refrain. Nun ist Adeste fideles sicher nicht mittelalterlichen Ursprungs, passt aber ansonsten in das Formschema. --FordPrefect42 (Diskussion) 00:37, 11. Dez. 2019 (CET)

Tondatei

Ich habe die Aufnahme mit Beniamino Gigli gegen eine Aufnahme des Collegium Vocale Bydgoszcz ausgetauscht, die ich musikalisch ausgezeichnet finde. Leider ist der mitlaufende Text fehlerhaft: statt fideles liest man fidels, statt Vocati Locati, vor allem aber statt Angelorum Algeronium, was schon eher ein dummer Scherz als ein Versehen ist. Gibt es irgendeine Möglichkeit, das zu korrigieren? Auf YouTube scheint das Video gelöscht zu sein. --Rabanus Flavus (Diskussion) 07:58, 5. Aug. 2021 (CEST)